We were fortunate during our trip to stay with Audacia Ray, and to meet Belledame for cupcakes before we headed to PodCamp New York. Thanks y’all!
No one should perceive this as a bash, because it’s not, but spending some time in New York has made me appreciate Atlanta more.
It’s hard not to get caught up in all the negativity that people toss at Atlanta.
Its corrupt and inefficient government…
Its sprawl…
Its poor air quality…
Its racial tensions…
Its bastard transit system…
Its physical and philosophical isolation from the rest of the state…
Its lack of a coherent identity…
Its disappearing history, with rotten caretakers of what’s left…
Its sea of bland chain stores…
And sweet Jesus, the traffic.
There’s a lot to like about New York. You can get damn well near anywhere (except LaGuardia Airport) on public transportation in a reasonable amount of time. There’s a deli seemingly on every block. There’s always something to do, even after 9 p.m. I could feel the presence of people and life everywhere that’s often missing even in the innermost, heavily-populated parts of Atlanta.
The last time I’d been to New York, I was 13 or 14, and did all the touristy shit. Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building, a Broadway show, etc. We stayed in Embassy Suites on Times Square.
I didn’t get the sense then that I got this time of just how massive the city really is. A lifetime wouldn’t be enough to see it all, and it defies a direct better or worse assessment versus another city. There isn’t anything I’ve ever been around like it.
There’s an awareness of space in all the construction that was foreign. The Brooklyn apartment I stayed in was big by New York standards, but would be small or on the low end of medium size for an Atlanta apartment. Passages and sidewalks and retail stores are cramped, with seemingly just enough space to function at all times, and often teetering precariously on the edge of a mob scene or a wreck. If Northerners perceive Southerners to express themselves with sweeping, dramatic gestures, I suspect that it’s because we lack that consciousness of space.
Sprawl is a relative term. Brooklyn is a sprawling area by New York standards, which means that the buildings are only two or three stories tall much of the time instead of 15 or 20 or more. There’s still enough density that most people don’t drive anywhere. Here, sprawl means houses with yards, and neighborhoods that don’t bother with sidewalks.
I’ve been a long-time advocate for building density and expanding mass transit. I still am after visiting New York, but there was a lot about seeing this extreme case study that made me understand critics’ reservations more than I did before.
Keeping the place clean seems to be an impossible task. New York makes Atlanta look immaculate. The infrastructure had the look, feel and spit smell of a theme park ride near the end of the season, when cleaning crews have fallen so far behind on their duties that they quit scraping the gum off the handrails and the snide penciled-in remarks off the “don’t ride this coaster if you’re an expectant mother or have heart problems” signs.
It was strange to see highway overpasses right next door to peoples’ apartments. The sky seemed to have an orange haze the whole time we were there, giving the place a surreal feeling.
Most of my interactions with people were with PodCamp folk, and you can see from the post-before-last I had some bizarre experiences with them. My general impression is that people are friendlier down here, but Amber told me on the MARTA ride back from the airport that she found people to be more or less as friendly when she lived there.
During our cab rides, people seemed to honk with much more gusto, and with a shorter burn time. One of our cabbies lollygagged a bit around one corner, and a mini-van driver behind us went batshit after only two seconds or so. There was much honking. And once I saw a cabbie blow through an intersection blaring his horn instead of stopping to see if there were any pedestrians in the way.
A discussion Amber, Dacia and I had while I was downing the beer sampler at lunch Friday (see photo above) was about how historic preservation is a relatively new concept, not really gaining prominence until the 70s or 80s. There’s perhaps a misconception that a lot of the historic buildings in New York are still around, but the reality is that stuff gets bulldozed there even quicker than it gets torn down in Atlanta.
We checked out the Global Feminisms exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum, which I may or may not write a separate blog post about at some point. The main thing it got me thinking about was the cyclical nature of life, and how history will tell you there’s much that’s inevitable and doomed to be repeated over and over and over again. Not a new insight, I reckon, but it never hurts to be reminded of that. I also learned there once was a female Pope, and that the next Pope tried to disappear her from the history books.
I guess I haven’t done much of a job explaining why I appreciate Atlanta more now. I’m not sure I have a tangible reason, other than missing it when I was there in a way I don’t miss it when I’m in other Southern towns.
Part of it might have been related to the episode with the British guy (see my PodCamp New York liveblogging post), and part something that happened on the final cab ride back to the airport from Brooklyn this morning.
The driver was a huge, jovial guy with a slight accent I couldn’t quite make. I had a lot of fun talking to him for most of the trip, but he started into a “I couldn’t live in the South because it’s too slow” missive as we approached the terminal. He had children who lived in Raleigh, North Carolina, so it’s not as if he was making a judgment purely based on site-unseen presumptions.
It’s good for people to be proud of where they’re from, but the South-bashing caused some regional pride to well up in me that I had forgotten about. That presumption that we’re all slow, backwards bumpkins didn’t leave me with a very good impression of them. It pissed me off, and made me want to defend my little neck of the woods despite it often living up to its reputation.
That defense mechanism forced me to think about all the things I love about Georgia. The trips we’ve taken to Savannah and Americus and half a dozen small towns. Walking to the Square in Decatur. The beautiful countryside and farms and mountains. The summers I spent playing baseball. Hearing stories from my mom about walking with her brothers and sister to the Fox Theater, and how my grandfather would only go with them when a John Wayne movie was playing. Podcast parties. Trivia. Living with Amber.
I got a little taste of how it feels to be bashed for my hometown’s perceived backwardness, and it wasn’t a good taste. There’s so much to this state, and not just in Atlanta. While I hope I’ve never written somebody’s opinion off simply because they were OTP, I acknowledge it’s possible I have, and I apologize to anyone I’ve ever done that to. I don’t ever want to do that again.
I’m glad to be home.







Well written and insightful.
Where is it written that there was once a female pope. I never heard that.
Yes, that is New YORK AS i REMEMVER IT.
The south does seem to be touchy to me.
I don’t think we who come from the north would be bothered by regional prejudice.
I am kind of proud that I am from new york and have a thick neck. i once went into a diner in s. carolina, at 6 am, and 3 guys having breakfast apparently saw me pull up to the parking lot with my new york plates. I think they made a bet. i went inside, looked the place over as wise new yorkers do and sat down.
I ordered breakfast and saw that the three were staring at me with smiles on their faces. So i gave them a look, and raised my eye brows as if to say “what’s up?” Did you see Al Pacino do that in a movie when he confronted a guy with a gun on a city street?
Any way, one of the guys said, Good morning, punctuating it with a smile. I guess I did not follow the southern custom and say good morning.
If they were to go up to new york going around at 6 am saying good morning to strangers in public places they would probably be accused of being gay and trying pick someone up
here’s one for you. you southerners are not slow, but parachoial. LOL hope it doesn’t hurt.
good blog by you. keep up the good work.
hank springer
Did you mean parochial Hank?
We’re touchy, but I think it’s totally justified. Amber was just telling me a little while ago how she had to endure some from a PodCamp New York organizer during the “Adventures in PodCamp” session.
I’m not pretending like there isn’t a healthy dose of anti-North bias (and a lot of other unreasonable biases) here. But it’s bad form for the hosts to initiate it.
I have the same reaction to New York, particularly this last time when I went to visit after being out of the Northeast for over a year. It’s just so…ugly. Much of it, anyway. Grimy and old and mishmash thrown together with no sense of planning whatsoever. And I often describe New York as akin to schizophrenia, to the extent that there is no way for my brain to filter all the activity and stimuli so I just start to feel like my senses are flooded.
Having lived for 8 years in Boston and visited New York a half dozen times, I can confidently say Southerners are MUCH nicer people than those in the Northeast. I blame the weather for their crappy attitudes.
At some point, I’ll finish up “The Power Broker.” I still have about 400-500 pages to go, but what I’m finding out is that it’s difficult to overestimate how much influence Robert Moses had on most of these things about NYC — especially the bit about the highway overpasses. Not that New York was a pretty place before the highways came barrelling through, but they sure didn’t help.
Oh yeah… the historic preservation thing is fairly new, as you mentioned. It came about after the destruction of the original Penn Station in favor of an underground Penn Station & Madison Square Garden. That decision was made by Robert Moses. What existed of a historic preservation movement back then exploded.
Today, I tend to view historic preservationists as being a bit overzealous, even if they have good intentions. They don’t have any sort of criteria (at least, nothing that could be considered strong or defensible) to determine what should be considered “historic.”
Preservation is nice and all, but please don’t stuff my city in a Mason Jar.
Sara,
Thanks for that insight. I’m a little reluctant to throw out a broad statement since that wouldn’t be any better than them assuming we’re all rubes down here. But, yeah, just like the South has its share of backwards slackjaws running around, New York has its share of oblivious condescending know-it-alls.
Joe,
Good points.
Cab driver obviously hasn’t been on I-285 if he thinks the South is “slow.”
There has to be a balance between being too friendly and being misanthropic and isolated. Kitty Genovese showed that the balance in the NYC area is not right.
Adrian,
The Kitty Genovese thing was like 20 years ago… it’s hardly fair to use that as some kind of example of NYC nowadays. (Incidentally, it was used as a case study in the game theory class I took freshman year.)
Just to put in my $0.02, I’ve lived in ATL for most of my life and I find it quite nice but the only other city in America that I would be willing to leave here for is NYC. Though, that’s not a rag on Atlanta.
Apparently my experiences are different. I find folks from the northeast, including those from NYC, to be much more polite and much easier to deal with than the average southerner. Like Rusty said about awareness of space, when you live with that kind of density you have to learn a certain degree of tolerance for the behavior of others. Attendant to that, one’s bullshit threshold gets to be very narrow. I think that many southerners, having lived where it’s easier to avoid people, as an entity, mistake that for rudeness. That and manners are a malleable, regionally dependent thing.
Anyway, ATL, NYC, love ‘em both.
[...] It’s why the Iraq situation will never improve until American forces leave. It’s why us Southerners have inherited some touchiness from our ancestors when relating to Northerners. And it’s one reason why the AJC’s circulation is dropping like a stone. [...]
We moved to Atlanta in 1976 and in the late 1980’s my Aunt and Uncle came over from Australia for a visit (my stepmom is an Aussie). Before the left they were told to watch out for the Klan..”they’re everywhere!”
When my Aunt and Uncle arrived in Atlanta they inquired about all this and we said we’d never seen the Klan live and in person. Wouldn’t you know, that Saturday the KKK was demonstrating on the Square in Lawrenceville.
[...] The post I wrote a few days ago called My renewed appreciation for the South is featured in the latest Georgia Carnival. Check it out. Also, interestingly, all the submissions to the carnival this time out were from men, hence the title. Filed under Current Events/Georgia at 9:19 am [...]
I enoyed reading about your thoughts on New York and Atlanta. One thing I have noticed lately about my side of town is I sure see more car tags from New York than ever before. Seems New Yorkers like the area too.